Differential

[snowbug77]

I have a narrow guage metal bombardier that needs a new differential assemble. What type of automotive differential is the most adaptable for this application?

[Cranman]

There are no automotive differential assemblies that fit the narrow guage. Is it just the carrier you need or is the whole assembly unuseable ? There likely are some available if you put the call out on this forum.

[Cranman]

If it is just the carrier that you need you can use one from an early 50's model Dodge or Plymouth car. Pickups too I think. Apparently the correct ratio is 4.11 to 1. I just found one that is 3.9 to 1 and I plan to use it. Later models had a finer axle spline pattern that was not compatable with the narrow guage axles. You have to pull the axles back to get the carrier out so you can tell right away if it is the right one. The ratio is usually stamped on the outer edge of the pinion gear. All above info is from Ted our local bombardier pro. For those of you with early wide guages you could use the auto axles or likely the whole assembly. Since you'd be installing it upside down you'd have to weld the vent hole up and tap in a new one on the other side.

[Skenman]

I phoned Dan Shaver and he made a ford 9" to fit, for my wide gauge.
Just had to get a new driveshaft made ($400 )

[Swamp Dawg]

In our 52 Narrow Gauge somebody has put in a GM 14-bolt rear end.  Super beefy with 3/8 thick axle tubes, Full floating axles, 1-ton strength.  Definatly will not be able to break it.

[the old trucker]

   Cranman I can get a rear end from a 1956 De Soto car. I don't think the bolt pattern is the same but I want to know if the crown & pinion would swap into mine ??  My ratio is 4;11. I guess the car would be 3;90 or 3;70 .Thanks  OT.

[Cranman]

54  maybe, but I think 56 is too late. If the crown is 663445 maybe you could disassemble but the whole assy would have to be set up in a shop familiar with it. Better off to look for an old truck diff with the same bolt pattern and course spline axle. Then it is all bolt in with no shimming and adjusting

[the old trucker]

   Thanks Cranman. I think I may know where to find one. Think a 1 ton diff would be the same ??

                                                                                            OT.

[the old trucker]

  I have my woody diff in the shop waiting to see if I can get a set of spider gears for it. I also have a diff from a narrow gauge metal bomber. I have a couple of questions.

   The woody diff has 4.11 gears & the diff from the metal bomber has 4.88 gears. Can I install the diff with 4.88's & use the  woody sprockets ?? I was sizing everything up & the 4.88 looks wider than the 4.11.
 It also has bigger axles. My sprocket hubs from the woody won't fit completely on the 4.88 axle. Is there any way to change these around ?? The 4.88 is in great shape.
   According to case #'s it's a Dana 44.  Can any body help me ??

  This # is C 30294
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/PICT1006.jpg

  This # is 44-1
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/PICT1005.jpg

  In this pic I wonder if I cut off the shiny area of the hub, if it will fit in place on the other diff. Right now the hubs are 41- 41 1/2" center to center. 
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/PICT1004.jpg
 
Here you can see the difference in width.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/PICT1002.jpg

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/PICT0998.jpg

[Cranman]

Never heard of anyone putting aluminum sprocket on a DANA . Would be OK if you can get it to mate up. Is the bolt pattern the same? With the aluminum sprockets you have to make sure they are tight. Many of them have been run loose at one time or another and the bolt holes elongate. I had to centre drill mine out to 3/4 inch and bush them with brass. Then I welded 1/2 inch nuts to the inside of the hub to increase the thread length. Then I used thick galvanized tower washers and grade 8 bolts torqued to the max. After about a week I got another 1/4 turn and the next year another 1/4 but since then all is ok. If you can install new spiders in the 4.10 it would be ok too. They are pretty tough.

[the old trucker]

   Thanks Cranman. Can you tell me where I can get a set of 4.10 spider gears, ( new or good used ). I have one aluminum & one cast sprocket. When I measured up both diffs, both will mount to the chassis, but when I measure from outside of housing to mount bracket the 4.88 is 5 & 7/8" and the 4.10 is only 4". That's 1 & 7/8" difference per side.
   According to this, the outside track width on the metal bomber is almost 4" wider than the woody track. I'm thinking if I put the 4.88 in & put on rubber sprockets it is going to throw my tracks way off alignment.
   I guess my other option is to take the old metal bomber that we got out east & cut the top half off & make a woody from that.
   I was told that the original 4.10 I have is from an old Dodge. I'm thinking it's from a late 40's model. Is it a Dana ?   

[dpaulson]

If you go with the dana with the 4.88 you would need to go with the new style of sprockets.  Either rubber or plastic like mine.  You would then need to get made a hub to attach the sprocket to the axle.  The required offset can be built into this new hub.   

[Cranman]

OT. I mentioned the dana to ted yesterday and he confirmed what Mr. Paulson had to say about getting new hubs made with an offset, so you may be better advised to look for a new diff or the parts you need. Is there no auto wreckers in NFL with an old pre 1954 dodge car or pickup laying around. You've shown us what the salty air does to the bodies, but surely the diffs would survive. As for the spider gears you might try googling "Collectors Auto Supply" as I see they have parts for that diff listed. The side gear they list is  the same number as the course spline axles we have in our diffs. Good luck with that.

[the old trucker]

  Cranman I think I may have found just what I need today. I was talking to a company in Winnipeg today & they have the" nest kit", complete with the case for less than $200 bucks (new). I checked the local bearing shop here & came accross with almost everything else that I need.
   The seal for the inside maybe a shade too big & I can't get a flange seal for the outside, (where the hub fits inside it & bolts together). The fellow there said I probably could use the old seal & put an "O" ring inside. It's only grease between both seals, so it may just work. I'm checking it all out before I order to make sure I have everything.
   Oldsledz did you have to replace the outer flange seals on your axles ?? Below is a pic of the flange seal. The shiny part of the hub fits inside the seal. I can get a seal # 21061 that fits but doesn't have the flange to secure it.
    
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/PICT1004.jpg                   

                                                                             I think OT's gettin' all geared up....

[the old trucker]

OT. I mentioned the dana to ted yesterday and he confirmed what Mr. Paulson had to say about getting new hubs made with an offset, so you may be better advised to look for a new diff or the parts you need. Is there no auto wreckers in NFL with an old pre 1954 dodge car or pickup laying around. You've shown us what the salty air does to the bodies, but surely the diffs would survive. As for the spider gears you might try googling "Collectors Auto Supply" as I see they have parts for that diff listed. The side gear they list is  the same number as the course spline axles we have in our diffs. Good luck with that.

  Cranman everything scrapped here goes to the crushers & ends up in Quebec & Ontario. I have hauled too many loads of it. I will call  "Collectors Auto Supply" when they open today to see what's what. Thanks again.

                                                                               OT.